Curse

Mhydrian · Aug 09, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

PVP in guildwars has serious issues. Maybe most of these issues revolves only around 4 vs 4 arenas, and random fights. But I think a extremely large portion of the PVP playerbase hangs out in these areas. Enough that some kind of attention or common sense needs to prevail if PVP in this game is going to be anything at all.

There are too many annoying builds emerging in PVP. These are builds that so badly break the balance they require a 2-4 man strategy soley focused on these builds to even have a chance. Some of the really bad builds are made from monks using enchantments, E/mo ether-smite build, and Fragility mesmers. Keep in mind this is a 4 vs 4, alot of people on the boards like the 8 vs 8 stuff, but a very very significant portion of the player base do 4 vs 4. All of the builds listed here do have counters, some of these require more than one class working together with the right skils to counter effectively. This isnt likely to happen in random 4 vs 4.

Im sorry to say no one build should be able to decimate a group of people. PVP is more about having the right build than skil in PVP. Its a shame that someone looking up the next cheesy uber build can defeat a very skilled player who simply thinks its beneath him to resort to such a cheesy tactic. Too many skills too many, counter, too small a skill bar. If stuck to the "loose" concept that Caster > melee >Ranger then things would be better.

Warriors in this game are the easiest class to counter, everyone has access to extremely effective counters to warriors. Many of these skills are 75% effective in reducing melee or better, not to mention the fact you can run for 100% damage reduction. Flip this around on warriors, where is the skill that allows a warrior to take only 25% spell damage? Reduce the pips of degen by 75%? They dont exist. In most of these cases the only counter is an interrupt...easier said than done.

Rangers fair a bit better than warriors, as a ranger you can easily keep a warrior at range forever and degen him to death. And a good ranger has a better than fair chance against casters, unfortunately rangers can be screwed by line of sight and quite a few deadly spells can easily cast right through solid walls. But the ranger can not kill a caster anywher near as effectively as a caster can kill a warrior. And a caster such as the Fragility build mesmer can destroy anybody under 10 seconds seconds, is there even time to contemplate a counter?

To sum it all up PVP in guildwars is too complex for its own good, considering how limiting the skillbar is. In 4 on 4 arenas rez sig is required, so you have 7 slots to work with, its like playing a game of cards such as war. Only instead of cards you use the skill bar. Essentially it matters very little how good you are if someone draws a King and you draw a 7 you are screwed. Serious changes need to be made before this game is a viable 4 on 4 PVP game, Im going to activate WOW account.

Ive gotten more than my moneys worth out of this game, so I cant complain about that. Its a great free game, but it really has some huge balance issues. Most of which revolve around monk builds. I can say the PVE part is very fun until you hit crystal desert and beyond. I would have liked to have seen more actual solo PVE areas, the prologue of this game was extremely fun. In any case its a free game, I probably wont delete it but I just cant play this game and expect a fair or remotely balanced PVP enviorment.

Red Sonya · Aug 09, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Can I have your stuff?

Charcoal Ann · Aug 09, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

but then again Ele's are MEANT to kill Warriors, rangers are meant to support your side and weaken the enemy... not kill them. mesmers are meant to stop casters but can find it hard to beat a warrior. a well balanced team can take on a team of 'uber' builds any day... if used well.
its just that in 4v4 its harder to get a balanced team than in 8v8.

Aug 09, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Warriors are easy to counter because they will kill any class in the game 1v1 with ample support. There are very few counters that are "permanent" on Warriors. So there are multiple options to beating them because they are just that scary. Warriors have energy Denial, Interrupts, Speed buffs, attack buffs, auto-criticals, and a 100% hit chance skill. they really dont need anything else to be good at killing. They also dont need anything to reduce elemental damage as they already have a default 80 AL vs it.

A Ranger vs a Warrior isnt really a fair comparison, since if you put both of them in 8v8 with support the Ranger will be hard pressed to shut a warrior down without the use of Stances. Rangers obliterate Casters better than any Caster with the exception of an Air ele can kill a Warrior. Degen and armor ignoring damage are the best ways to deal with them, but it still takes time.

Fragility Mesmers are still shit. They work in 4v4 Arena because people just dont carry hex removal, interrupts or even common sense. It's a one angle attack that relies on someone getting off every hex in the right order. The counter to beating fragility builds? remove hexes, run hex breaker, or just interrupt them. Easier said than done, but they are far less dangerous than El/Mo smiters.

Most of your post just wreaks of someone not knowing enough about PvP to make a warranted complaint. The PvP game is far from being complex at the moment, and when someone makes a statement like that I cant take their words seriously. Sure it's unbalanced at the moment, but you're complaining about the wrong things.

Red Sonya · Aug 09, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I think 4x4 random was made that way for a reason, so no one really dominates it and if they do after 10 wins they get booted to the Team Arenas. I like the 4x4 random pugs. I laugh many times at the antics of people and how they play. But, it's just a game, it's just for fun and a few faction points and if anyone is not ever getting on a winning team they must just have very bad luck. I've unlocked every rune and weapon item I've needed for my W/Mo and Mo/W with faction points I've won in the random pvp arenas and it came very fast also, just a couple of weeks.

We don't need a HOH type random 4x4 anyway. In fact it's where I try out so many different types of builds. I recently found that a Mo/N really suks badly. lol I try all kinds of combos and skills in the 4x4 random arenas and no I don't always take a rez sig either. If I want to take a rez sig I will, if I choose not to, that is MY business. In random even though it's a team, it's still the best place to "practice" your builds, and not worry so much about whether you win or lose. I certainly don't.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 09, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

From my experience people only do 4vs4 to test and expirement with builds and maybe round off their faction points...

GvG and HoH are serious. Random Areanas isn't as serious and isn't as fun.

Red Sonya · Aug 09, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

While I agree it's not serious, I find it a lot more fun than standing outside HOH waiting for a group for an hour. I'd rather be playing and earning faction than standing around waiting for a pug or find a group that doesn't require TS/VENT. Many of us don't find HOH fun either.

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 09, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

While I agree it's not serious, I find it a lot more fun than standing outside HOH waiting for a group for an hour. I'd rather be playing and earning faction than standing around waiting for a pug or find a group that doesn't require TS/VENT. Many of us don't find HOH fun either.

What's wrong with TS or vent? You don't have a sound card? My mic is broken and I'm the warrior/prot monk in the group and I'm usually calling. O.o

You don't need to talk.

Red Sonya · Aug 09, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

What's wrong with TS or vent? You don't have a sound card? My mic is broken and I'm the warrior/prot monk in the group and I'm usually calling. O.o

You don't need to talk.

I like "quiet" when I play a game. Silence is golden. I don't want to hear a bunch of crackling voiced kiddies arguing or screaming HEAL ME HEAL ME, YOU SUK, ESAD, you NOOB, IDIOT, MORON....stuff like that that I heard all to often when I tried TS/VENT. I've been in enough "silent groups" to make rank 2 and almost rank 3 now, and been in TS/VENT groups that didn't even make it past the NPC's before entering the tournament. If anything is over-rated, it's the need for TS/VENT to win HOH.

MSecorsky · Aug 09, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

What's wrong with TS or vent? You don't have a sound card? My mic is broken and I'm the warrior/prot monk in the group and I'm usually calling. O.o

You don't need to talk.

My wife thinks I'm odd enough for playing so often. If I start talking to the computer... well, let's let it go there.

Tactical-Dillusions · Aug 09, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Blacklace, i once took on two warriors in an arena with my ranger and owned the pair of them using poison arrow and stances.

In my short time in arenas, i have yet to notice any imbalance, so i have no comment to make in that respect.

Red Sonya · Aug 09, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

Blacklace, i once took on two warriors in an arena with my ranger and owned the pair of them using poison arrow and stances.

In my short time in arenas, i have yet to notice any imbalance, so i have no comment to make in that respect.

Heh, that's why when I play a Warrior I always bring along WILD BLOW/Hamstring/Mend Ailment, so much for your stances and poison then, all gone in one fell swoop. hehe Everything is counterable. You just happened to hit a time when everything was in your favor.

Fantus · Aug 10, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

From my experience people only do 4vs4 to test and expirement with builds and maybe round off their faction points...

GvG and HoH are serious. Random Areanas isn't as serious and isn't as fun.

I am playing Arenas for the very reason that they aren't as serious as HoH. The overserious attitude of some (most?) of the people doing HoH has successfully kept me away from there.

Sometimes I play a Mesmer in 4v4. Yes, often people don't seem to know what a Mesmer can do (after all only relatively few people seem to play one) which in some instances might lead to the other team dying quickly.

However I have also encountered a lot of groups who disabled my Mesmer very effectively and very quickly. It's not about unbalanced gameplay, it's about skill, I guess.

After all it's not MY fault if the enemy players forgot to bring their hex countering skills or their ranger is dumb enough to fire their arrows on the warrior instead of me...

Tuna · Aug 10, 2005, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Fragility Mesmers are still shit. They work in 4v4 Arena because people just dont carry hex removal, interrupts or even common sense. It's a one angle attack that relies on someone getting off every hex in the right order. The counter to beating fragility builds? remove hexes, run hex breaker, or just interrupt them. Easier said than done, but they are far less dangerous than El/Mo smiters.

This is one of the problems with hex/removal balance issues. If you use hexes you have to go the whole 9 yards and throw them out like candy on halloween to prevent the important ones form being removed. On the flip side, there isn't really a way for the opposing team to deal with that magnitude of hexes. Luckily we're still dealing with NR so this isn't a problem yet.

Satire Elexus · Aug 10, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

PVP in guildwars has serious issues. Maybe most of these issues revolves only around 4 vs 4 arenas, and random fights. But I think a extremely large portion of the PVP playerbase hangs out in these areas. Enough that some kind of attention or common sense needs to prevail if PVP in this game is going to be anything at all.

There are too many annoying builds emerging in PVP. These are builds that so badly break the balance they require a 2-4 man strategy soley focused on these builds to even have a chance. Some of the really bad builds are made from monks using enchantments, E/mo ether-smite build, and Fragility mesmers. Keep in mind this is a 4 vs 4, alot of people on the boards like the 8 vs 8 stuff, but a very very significant portion of the player base do 4 vs 4. All of the builds listed here do have counters, some of these require more than one class working together with the right skils to counter effectively. This isnt likely to happen in random 4 vs 4.

Im sorry to say no one build should be able to decimate a group of people. PVP is more about having the right build than skil in PVP. Its a shame that someone looking up the next cheesy uber build can defeat a very skilled player who simply thinks its beneath him to resort to such a cheesy tactic. Too many skills too many, counter, too small a skill bar. If stuck to the "loose" concept that Caster > melee >Ranger then things would be better.

Warriors in this game are the easiest class to counter, everyone has access to extremely effective counters to warriors. Many of these skills are 75% effective in reducing melee or better, not to mention the fact you can run for 100% damage reduction. Flip this around on warriors, where is the skill that allows a warrior to take only 25% spell damage? Reduce the pips of degen by 75%? They dont exist. In most of these cases the only counter is an interrupt...easier said than done.

Rangers fair a bit better than warriors, as a ranger you can easily keep a warrior at range forever and degen him to death. And a good ranger has a better than fair chance against casters, unfortunately rangers can be screwed by line of sight and quite a few deadly spells can easily cast right through solid walls. But the ranger can not kill a caster anywher near as effectively as a caster can kill a warrior. And a caster such as the Fragility build mesmer can destroy anybody under 10 seconds seconds, is there even time to contemplate a counter?

To sum it all up PVP in guildwars is too complex for its own good, considering how limiting the skillbar is. In 4 on 4 arenas rez sig is required, so you have 7 slots to work with, its like playing a game of cards such as war. Only instead of cards you use the skill bar. Essentially it matters very little how good you are if someone draws a King and you draw a 7 you are screwed. Serious changes need to be made before this game is a viable 4 on 4 PVP game, Im going to activate WOW account.

Ive gotten more than my moneys worth out of this game, so I cant complain about that. Its a great free game, but it really has some huge balance issues. Most of which revolve around monk builds. I can say the PVE part is very fun until you hit crystal desert and beyond. I would have liked to have seen more actual solo PVE areas, the prologue of this game was extremely fun. In any case its a free game, I probably wont delete it but I just cant play this game and expect a fair or remotely balanced PVP enviorment.

I'm not entirely sure what your complaining about here. If your playing in random areana's then that would mean that your opponents are err..well...random. So how can there be an ubber build that people are using on you so consistantly. My guess is that it's your character/build/strategy that is at fault. If your playing in the 4v4 Team Areana, then your just not getting in good groups. If other teams can come up with a build that owns then why isn't your team doing the same.